moratorium on suction dredge permit

[mailman]

Moratorium on Suction Dredge Permits

Judge Roesh of Alameda County just signed the Hillman Karuk Injunction to stop the issuance of all new suction dredge permits as of today 9th of July 2009. There will be no more new permits issued until the California Department of Fish and Game (DFG) completes and EIR.

There is no language addressing the fact that those who already have permits would not be able to continue to dredge this year. SB 670 will probably not stop those who already have permits either. However the bill and the DFG regulations give them the ability to close waterways in case of emergency. If this happens you will not be able to get with in 100 Yards from any closed waterway.

PLP has already started working on a Federal Injunction to be filed in Federal Court to
enjoin the State of California and the DFG from prohibiting suction dredge mining. The PLP Injunction should be ready to be filed by the middle of August 2009.

Without a doubt PLP will need more funding to carry this and the other cases we have going on, Karuk v DFG, Hillman, Karuk Injunction against DFG, Hillman, Karuk et al taxpayer law suit and Public Lands for the People Inc. v Eldorado National Forest, Travel Management Plan). We ask those of you who suction dredge or just prospect to please assist PLP in raising these funds to carry these cases to fruition in particular the Federal Injunction against the State and the DFG on the non issuance of dredging permits.

Keene Engineering started the donation for the Federal Injunction with $ 5,000.

Funding can be donated through pay pal at our website http://www.plp2.org
Or
Barrett Wetherby
3700 Santa Carlotta
La Crescenta, Ca. 91214

Thank You
JERRY HOBBS

[Auramm]

Anybody wanna bet on how long it takes that bottom feeding carpetbagging scumbag from Happycamp to disappear again?

My bet is it won't be long. I think we ought to go looking for him and the clowns that upset the tribe and string them all up from a healthy oak, but then again I wouldn't want to poison the ground under the tree.

JMHO

Dave

[Hoser John]

YES THANK ALL THE MINING RIGHTS SCUMBAGS WHO PLANTED A IDJET RIGHT BY THE RANGER STATION TO PISS'M OFF AND FORCE THE GDMF ISSUE--ISSUE IS--WEZE THE F OUTTA THERE FOLKS--John lock and load hunting season is on mfrs!!!!!!!!!!

[Nuggetdigger]

well, shit

looks like the greenies got exactly what they have been trying to get with all of there lies and bullshit now for the last two+ years.


i dont want to sound like the voice of doom, but now they have it, it will be 10000000 times harder for us to get it back.

problem is there may not be any "language" covering those guys who already got there permits, BUT what do you think the DFG is going to do if they coime up on you dredging somewere,permit or not?....they will either confiscate your shit, or write you a big ass ticket.....and then by the time you get to court, dredge season will be over, and all the rangers going to say is "well, i musta miss understood the whole thing. oh, of course youll be found innocent and if they took your stuff they will give it back, but seeing as they found ya innocent, youll not have a leg to stand on........your dredge equipment wont be worth a squat anymore in california. ill bet within the next couple months youll be able to buy a newer dredge for pennies.

no, as much as i hate to say it, i think we just saw the end of gold dredging in california.

[MineralEstateGrantee]

PERMITS! Rights don't require no stinking permits. Know your rights...your Granted Right: http://www.grantedright.com/The_Law.html

[Sac - man]

just wondering the state just had me pay 50;00 for taxes on my claim, they say its worth 5'000'00 so now what ??????

[Hoser John]

PUFF-PUFF-PASS-stupid @$$ smoke dream. The absolute most all encompassing powerful police officer in kalif just happens to a CDFG cop !!! I've been to court and thrown peanutz through the bars to buds STUPID enough to spout this insipid shat!!! John

[MineralEstateGrantee]

Sac-man,

This might help:

Jurisdiction Over Federal Areas Within The States Part II

Report of the Interdepartmental Committee For The Study Of Jurisdiction Over Federal Areas Within The States.

June 1957

Page 265

"Moreover, the Supreme Court emphasized, the laws of the United States are supreme, and the States have no power, by taxation or otherwise, to retard, impede, burden or in any manner control the operation of the constitutional laws enacted by Congress to carry into execution the powers of the Federal Government.

Taxation, the court stated, relying on M'Culloch v. Maryland, 4 Wheat. 316 (1819), is such an interference. Moreover, the court made clear, a distinction cannot be made on the basis of the uses to which the real property of the Federal Government may be devoted:"

Page 269

"Special Assessments.-- Federally owned property is constitutionally exempt not only from a State's and local subdivision's general real property taxes, but it is also immune from special assessments which are levied against property owners for improvements. See Wisconsin Central R.R. v. Price County, supra; Mullen Benevolent Corp. v. Anderson Cottonwood Irr. Dist., 19 F.Supp.740 (N.D. Cal., 1937). "

Page 274

Gibson v. Chouteau, 13 Wall. 92 (1872) "The same principle which forbids any State legislation interfering with the power of Congress to dispose of the public property of the United States, also forbids legislation depriving the grantees of the United States of the possession and enjoyment of the property granted by reason of any delay in transfer of the title after the initiation for its acquisition."

Looks like Sac-man needs to ask, Based upon the foregoing authority forbidding state interference, what law, not contrary to the congressional power to dispose the land, does the department purporting to make a demand for payment of state taxes levy tax?

[Hoser John]

Damn what a laugh--THE TAX IS A USURY TAX ON THE MINING RIGHTS--NOT A PROPERTY TAX AND IS THUS EXEMPT FROM FEDERAL STATURE AND YOU MUST PAY PROPERTY USURY TAX ALSO TO THE COUNTY TOO-this is ancient law folks--lets get 2009??John

[MineralEstateGrantee]

Hoser John,

Without "ancient law" there would be no free and open right to possess, occupy, or develop the mineral deposits as is expresed in the present grant act of 1866. As late as 2009 Us v. Hicks proved that right is still exitsing and valid.

But more importantly staying on point of the discussion is paramount. As a matter of law there is n subject matter authority in any agency to regulate mining deposits located by the grant of 1866.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Usury

Of Usury, from Brant's Stultifera Navis (the Ship of Fools); woodcut attributed to Albrecht Dürer Usury comes from the Medieval Latin usuria, "interest" or "excessive interest", from the Latin usura "interest") originally meant the charging of interest on loans. This would have included charging a fee for the use of money, such as at a bureau de change. After countries legislated to limit the rate of interest on loans, usury came to mean the interest above the lawful rate. In common usage today,

Usury and the law

The Magna Carta commands, "If any one has taken anything, whether much or little, by way of loan from Jews, and if he dies before that debt is paid, the debt shall not carry usury so long as the heir is under age, from whomsoever he may hold. And if that debt falls into our hands, we will take only the principal contained in the note." [20]"When money is lent on a contract to receive not only the principal sum again, but also an increase by way of compensation for the use, the increase is called interest by those who think it lawful, and usury by those who do not." (Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, p. 1336).

In the United States, usury laws are state laws that specify the maximum legal interest rate at which loans can be made. Congress has opted not to regulate interest rates on purely private transactions, although it arguably has the power to do so under the interstate commerce clause of Article I of the Constitution.

Congress has opted to put a federal criminal limit on interest rates by the RICO definitions of "unlawful debt" which make it a federal felony to lend money at an interest rate more than two times the local state usury rate and then try to collect that "unlawful debt".[21]

It is a federal offense to use violence or threats to collect usurious interest (or any other sort). Such activity is referred to as loan sharking, although that term is also applied to non-coercive usurious lending, or even to the practice of making consumer loans without a license in jurisdictions that require licenses.

Usury and royalties
Royalties are contractual obligations of the Issuer of the royalty, made for the benefit of the holder of the royalty. Royalties require the payment of an agreed percentage of revenue of the Issuer, for an agreed period of time. In the event a royalty is purchased from an Issuer, the future revenue upon which the royalty is based is unknown at the time of the original transaction. Therefore, the cumulative amount of the future royalty payments is also an unknown. Royalty payments are not interest and royalties expire without value at their maturity. To be usurious payments made and received for the use of funds must be considered interest for loaned funds which require repayment at the maturity of the loan.

[diverrick]

OK someone has got to bring me up to speed here..
It sounds like some miners( whiteman) pissed off the indians (redman),
Then in order to prove it, they went and did some dredging right in front of the authorities (CDFG)
Seeing as White men can't kill Indians anymore, and all indians have is money and lawyers, they lived, and then they sued.
Is that about the sum of it.
I never heard any details as to how we all got dragged into this fray, and what events led up to these last few days of dredging.
Can some one bring us up to speed without calling each other names?

[Auramm]

Diverrick,
I PM'd you my number, give me a ringading, I will cover this with you, and have a few other things to talk to you about. If you have an ATT cellie, it is a free call, if not it is for me after 7 pm.

Dave

[diverrick]

Yea I meant to cal you last night, but I got slammed by a meeting after work, and was running until I fell into bed late. I'll try today.

[goldcoastprospector]

The more I think about this the more it stinks of collusion. Kuruks vs 49ers tying up the court system for years? CDFG stops salmon stocking for 3to5 yrs at the enviros request. Salmon population plummets. People panic blame it on us and shut us out enviros win, court battles end, politicians look like gold in the enviros eyes and the campaign contributions flow like water in to there coffers and the Kuruks and miners both lose. Mark

[dign4 au]

I just got off the phone with Pat Keene and he indicated that they are issuing dredging permits again.

More news to follow. I did not get the e-mail from him yet.